Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

topic posted Sat, August 1, 2009 - 6:43 AM by  Adrienne
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The following post may seem long, but I really appreciate feedback and advice about what I am sure is a common dilemma in this community.

My best friend and I have done some hoop performances together, and have always split the $$$ 50-50. However, she recently told me that she wants to change our arrangement. She wants what she called a "standard finder's fee", whereby the hooper who actually gets the gig (thru promoting and networking) takes 60% of the money, and the other one of us would get 40%...the thing that really bothers me, however, is that she also wants the hooper who got the gig (and gets 60%) to have what she called "exclusive promotion rights" that night, meaning: that if she gets the gig, she gets 60% of the $$$ AND the "right" to handout her card, whereas I would not be able to hand out my card that night. (and vice versa)

Now, this girl is my best friend and I love her, so we both agreed to sit down and lay out our sides of it. Here are my problems with what she is saying:

-the money should be split equally if we are doing equal work

-as for the cards, we should both hand out our cards, anytime anywhere. this is especially true b/c I am the only one out of the two of us who makes and sells hoops (she never has, and I made her hoops for her). When i asked her how she would handle someone approaching her for a hoop order, she suggested that she would pass the order on to me, and then TAKE A CUT of the hoop money. i am NOT cool with this as it is my materials and labor at work. also, i ordered professional cards long ago, whereas she only made hers last week on the computer, and i also am the only one of us who maintains a hooping website for my business.

-though she is a great hooper with her own style and all, I have put much more into my hooping so far in the sense that I have: travelled to NC TWICE for hooping retreats and to learn from the best, i have been making all types of hoops for months (including LED ones for her and I!), I have gone into NYC for classes, etc etc....I am also planning to do a teacher training asap. She, though great, has only hooped and studied with me, and performed a couple of times with me.

The true irony in this is that, we haven't even made enough money to be squabbling over it! We have made less than $100 collectively from gigs! I make more money from hoop making, which is my work alone. I think, b/c she has not studied with the "greats" as I have, she does not really realize yet how far we have yet to go, and what novices we really are (I hooped for 6 months, she for 4 or 5).

Ultimately, I am thinking that for the sake of the friendship we should go our own separate ways when it come to hooping and anything revolving around $$$$$. Though I don't WANT to be competitors, I cannot agree to the arrangements she has suggested. She seems to want very much to profit from hooping, and i have slightly different goals. Sure, money is great, but i don't want any negative energy creating blocks on my hoop path. i think it may be time for our hoop paths, but not our friendship paths, to diverge.

Any feedback is WAY appreciated!
posted by:
Adrienne
New York
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  • Re: Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

    Sat, August 1, 2009 - 8:22 AM
    Promoting and networking is a lot of work! I don't think asking for 60% is out of line. As for the exclusive promotion rights that seems a bit much and taking a cut of your hoop money is ridiculas!

    What ever you do keep it fun, thats what it is all about!!!
  • Re: Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

    Sun, August 2, 2009 - 8:25 AM
    From a purely business aspect I'll agree that 60% for the finder vs 40% for performer is completely valid and a great motivational tool to continue getting gigs (be sure to do that AFTER travel expenses, though).

    The exclusive right to hand out your business card is complete crap and not even remotely acceptable imo, so nix that. If you two aren't a group with one card you should both definitely at all times be allowed to hand out your individual cards.

    As far as a cut from the referrals, I could totally see that being a valid setup and again a good motivational tool to get you more work. What may have to happen is that you increase your hoop prices slightly to accommodate giving your friend a cut or just resign yourself to getting a little bit less money for doing something you wouldn't have without the referral. The key here is going to be finding a good amount of money to reward your friend for getting you work.

    To me, the bottom-line in business dealings is that you want to make money *to keep doing business* so creation of mutually agreed-upon rules is huge in keeping you going. You do this business (performing and prop construction) because you love it, I don't doubt, but you also need to earn to KEEP doing it as often as you'd like, no? So create a business setup with a friend that you both would like and enjoy doing what you love for a living :)
  • Re: Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

    Mon, August 3, 2009 - 5:07 AM
    I'd say you have two options:

    Your first option is to sever your business relationship before it spoils your friendship. Unfortunately, this will likely set you up as rivals; so I would address that in the discussion you are going to have with her. And YES; you really do have to discuss that. You don't want it happening in the shadows afterward, so bring it to light in advance. It sounds to me like she might be feeling a little "second Banana" to you, and is looking to step up her name. the way she's going about it indicates a bit of hidden bitterness to me.

    Option two is formalizing a business relationship with her. If she wants to take a share of the money for promoting; that is fair. But if she's not involved in your fabrication business or has her own; she should not prevent you from passing out your card. In fact, consider letting her in on your fabrication business and consolidating your approach.

    as I see it you either have to separate, or team up completely. What you have now is a casual arrangement; but If she wants to step up to your level that means either she joins your endeavor; or you become competitors. I think a lot of talking is called for.
  • Re: Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

    Mon, August 17, 2009 - 6:53 PM
    I would tend to agree that promotion and nailing down the gig might be worth the extra 10%, it is work and can run into expenses. The bit about cards and being the hoop order taker is ridiculous, though. On the other hand, if she gets orders for you when performing or networking somewhere where you are not, well, that's not uncommon. However, at the scale of business we're talking about here, it seems kinda presumptuous.

    If you guys are getting gigs every weekend, then it is probably time to sit down and write up a formal agreement...

    In the meantime, I might be interested in led hoops that have that connector thing so they can be transported as semi-circles instead of the rather unwieldy circle. A woman had one at the burner event I was at last weekend (for those of us in the midwest that can't make it to the big burn.). The one she had didn't have led in it though.
    • Re: Help: Balancing $$$$$$ and Friendship

      Wed, August 19, 2009 - 6:45 PM
      having an LED that is convenient for transport is a bit of a challenge: the way they are wired, leaving them unconnected or collapsible would mean having the battery dangling out of the end, as there is a certain way the battery must be configured in relation to the connector. also, any kinds of joint or flexion within the tubing length could mean stress to the somewhat delicate wiring circuit contained within the hoop.

      though i have made LED hoops for myself and my friend, anyone wishing to purchase an LED (especially a unique or custom one) I would refer to the many talented LED craftpersons online. i really only sell non-lighted hoops; when it comes to LEDS, i admit that there are pros out there who can make them better than i.

      some great places to start are: prodmod.com (can sell you kits to make your own, maybe customizible to what you want?), or psi hoops (expensive, but i am told they are well worth it) if you are looking for the most affordable LED hoop you can find, try superhooper.com

      thanks for your post and inquiry; good luck on your hoop search!